Banque de l'infrastructure du Canada (BIC): où sera t'elle située?

[qwerty]

You relate false info that you call facts. Sorry for the insult, but enough is enough. You lie on a daily basis with your made up information and you should not be allowed to do that.

[fmfranck]

I dont understand how you can say that Toronto is profficient in AI because of the Vector Institute. Vector was JUST put in place a month and a half ago to try to make Toronto competitive in that field. Wouldnt that mean, a contrario, that they WERENT competitive beforehand? 

https://www.utoronto.ca/news/toronto-s-vector-institute-officially-launched

Modifié 15 mai 2017 par fmfranck

[fmfranck]

 

il y a 19 minutes, mark_ac a dit :

There are 30 companies behind Vector, with Accenture being the main sponsor. 

Do you think these companies would blindly invest if there wasn't a basis for the investment?  If Montreal was the hotspot for AI, heads and shoulders above Toronto, why Uber open an AI Lab in Toronto? 

My point remains the same. Montreal has a burgeoning AI sector, but so does Toronto. The logic of the government of Canada funding  equally Toronto and Montreal's AI sector holds.

 

 

How can you not see that you are reinforcing the point that was being made about the unfair advantage Toronto is getting? 

Montréal WAS productive in AI before the announcement of the federal funding. Microsoft and Google were expanding their offices in Montréal and investing (cloud city, etc) massively. Mpntréal had MILA before the feds decided to get involved and create an even playing field by investing EVENLY throughout 3 city/universities*. So with the little shot in the arm from the public sector, UofT are able to attract private investors, but that is after the involvement of the fed (Uber is as well). Not rocket science. And all of this because Toronto couldnt organically build a competitive AI industry. They needed the help of the public sector, and Ottawa, as it always is, was there for Toronto. 

* Side argument. If "Montreal has a burgeoning AI sector, but so does Toronto. The logic of the government of Canada funding  equally Toronto and Montreal's AI sector holds." Where does Edmonton come into the fray? Why are they getting an even share of that investment in AI?

[ToxiK]

Il y a 12 heures, mark_ac a dit :

Sounds like a poem of a sore loser.

Blame Toronto, the Canadian establishment etc.. it's not our fault that almost left the Canadian federation twice, are the most taxed jurisdiction in the Americas, and have generally unfriendly business attitude over the past. 

I'm just as proud as you to be a Montrealer and a Quebecker, the difference is to take accountability for our destiny.

I agree 100% on your last point. The PLC has no courage when it comes to Quebec. Never has, never will. As a Montrealer, very hard to a proud Canadian or Quebecker. Always stuck in the middle of two neglecting forces.

You are a proud montrealer.  All right.  Then stop focussion on Toronto !  In the canadian context, they will always win.  They are the favorite, the teacher's pet, the good kid.  It is a matter of perception, of marketing.  Decades of Québec bashing (even if part of it was based in reality) cannot be undone overnight.  Changing perceptions takes years, decades to do, and we don't have the time nor the ressources for that.

Let Toronto be the big fish in their small pond and focus on the world.  Lets swim in the ocean.  Were second in North America for the number of students after Boston.  There is no shame to be second to Boston in that field (there is shame to be second to them in hockey, but that is also true of Toronto...).  New York is the center of finance in North Amrerica, not Toronto.  We should take New York as an example (I know, we are not playing in the same league, but neither does Toronto, whatever they might believe).  It is preferable to compare with the best in the world then to compare to the best locally.  San Francisco is a leader in research, they should be our example in that field.  And so on...  Toronto will always be the teacher's favorite, then let's try to succeed outside of the classroom, outside of the school.

To do that, we need to improve our city.  Improve efficency and productivity.  If governments can become more efficient, we will need less money for the same level of services, the rest could be used elsewhere (even for cutting taxes).  We need to improve the quality of life, public transportation and other infrastrcutures.  We need to be more open to immigrants and recognized their diplomas.  We need to modernize.  We need a cleaner environment.  We need to be able to offer more to people living here (a baseball team is an example, it gives more choices of Entertainment).  But we don't need to recuce the place of French in the province, whatever angryphones or canadian media can complain about. 

If we do all that, we will be a more attractive city for people to come here and work, and do research.  We cas attract top people to work here.  And you know what?  We are already doing all that !  Sometimes very slowly, but we are on the right track.  A lot of people are seeing that, but they don't in Toronto or in canadian media.  So what?  We are not trying to impress them.  We are trying to impress the world.  The competition will be ferocious, and we have to tell the world about ourselves because canadian media wont do it.  But we can do it !

[Djentmaster001]

20 minutes ago, ToxiK said:

You are a proud montrealer.  All right.  Then stop focussion on Toronto !  In the canadian context, they will always win.  They are the favorite, the teacher's pet, the good kid.  It is a matter of perception, of marketing.  Decades of Québec bashing (even if part of it was based in reality) cannot be undone overnight.  Changing perceptions takes years, decades to do, and we don't have the time nor the ressources for that.

Let Toronto be the big fish in their small pond and focus on the world.  Lets swim in the ocean.  Were second in North America for the number of students after Boston.  There is no shame to be second to Boston in that field (there is shame to be second to them in hockey, but that is also true of Toronto...).  New York is the center of finance in North Amrerica, not Toronto.  We should take New York as an example (I know, we are not playing in the same league, but neither does Toronto, whatever they might believe).  It is preferable to compare with the best in the world then to compare to the best locally.  San Francisco is a leader in research, they should be our example in that field.  And so on...  Toronto will always be the teacher's favorite, then let's try to succeed outside of the classroom, outside of the school.

To do that, we need to improve our city.  Improve efficency and productivity.  If governments can become more efficient, we will need less money for the same level of services, the rest could be used elsewhere (even for cutting taxes).  We need to improve the quality of life, public transportation and other infrastrcutures.  We need to be more open to immigrants and recognized their diplomas.  We need to modernize.  We need a cleaner environment.  We need to be able to offer more to people living here (a baseball team is an example, it gives more choices of Entertainment).  But we don't need to recuce the place of French in the province, whatever angryphones or canadian media can complain about. 

If we do all that, we will be a more attractive city for people to come here and work, and do research.  We cas attract top people to work here.  And you know what?  We are already doing all that !  Sometimes very slowly, but we are on the right track.  A lot of people are seeing that, but they don't in Toronto or in canadian media.  So what?  We are not trying to impress them.  We are trying to impress the world.  The competition will be ferocious, and we have to tell the world about ourselves because canadian media wont do it.  But we can do it !

 

 

We're well on our way with that, remember slow growth over the long term is healthier than huge boom and bust cycles. The government has been more responsible lately and hopefully, this continues. Public transportation is improving and is more efficient than almost all transport systems in North America (trust me on this). We're being more open to immigrants and will be passing laws to increase immigration and to recognise their diplomas. As someone with a background in international business, and soon political science, and as someone whose lived elsewhere, Montreal is indeed on the right track! there is a renaissance happening and it's beautiful to see, even though it's slow in an economic sense, it's healthier. From when I left till I came back, poverty rates have decreased, infrastructure investments have been non-stop which in turn attracts more investments, people are moving back to Montreal, there's a positive vibe and future ahead, trust me. We have a lot of work to do, but we're going in the right direction. Amongst a younger generation, Montreal is seen as a desirable place due to language, cost efficiency, green environment, transportation, progressiveness, etc... It's a fun time to be in Montreal I'll tell you that. 

Modifié 15 mai 2017 par Djentmaster001

[Rocco]

C'est drôle les investissements privés au Québec étaient à leur peak en 2013 (20 milliards) alors que le PQ était au pouvoir et depuis que le PLQ est là en 2014 les investissements privés ne cessent de baisser.. where's the beef?

[andre md]

Maluuba an AI startup moved from Waterloo to Montreal. 

 

 

 

[ToxiK]

Il y a 2 heures, mark_ac a dit :

That's all nice and good.

But we live in a Canadian context. The majority of our trade is with Canada - and we can't afford to keep losing head offices, human capital and influence to Toronto.  All Montrealers should be ashamed that founded in Montreal (Bell/Molson/Amaya) have moved to Toronto. 

If you think i'm obsessed with this, that's fine.  There's not enough Montreal inc. to make up for the neglecting force in the ROC. Unfortunately a lot of the gap is recovered by the Caisse/Quebec government apparatus such as investissement Quebec - which is why we are the leader per capita in corporate welfare.

I believe in this city, it's why I stay here. But if weren't not smart we're going to continue to lose in absolute and in relative to Toronto. Simple as that.

 

We live in the world context.  We are located in Canada, but with globalization the playing field is the world.  If we play only in Canada, we play on Toronto home field.  It should be our field too, but it isn't.  As I said, perception is against un and it is a losing battle to try to directly change that.  Lets conquer the world, this has a much better chance to change the mind about Québec in Canada.  Not so long ago, poutine (the food, not the wannabe tyrant) was deride in a big part on the ROC's mind as a Québec disgusting food.  But now Americans like it so it suddenly became a proud Canadian gourmet food (I exaggerate a little, but still...).

Stop looking at Toronto, you will get depressed.  If it depresses you to see apples fall down instead of up, then don't look at the apple tree.  Gravity will always attract the apples down.  The Canadian gravity center is Toronto.  What we can do is to try to keep Québec in our own gravity field, and we do that with promotting French, not by reducing its place.  We can't out-toronto Toronto, we can only be Montréal (and it is pretty good if you ask me).  We do need to modernize the so-called Québec Model, but we are definitely in a rise now.  Lets build on that by looking at the world, not at our voracious Canadian neighbour !

[gomtl]

C"est très difficilile d'avoir une discussion sur le thème de ce fil. En émettant une opinion sur le thème principal, voilà qu'on a un intervenant qui nous bouscule dans tous les sens, en nous chocant par l'absurdité de ses propos. Et c'est la que le bal commence. Nos explications, plus souvent qu'autrement supportées par des statistiques probantes sont rejetées et les comparaisons qui nous ramènent des décennies en arrière entrent dans le débat.

Cette attitude n'est rien d'autres qu'un désir de voir déraper une discussion qui commence à être révélatrice. J'aime lire les commentaires sérieux et bien supportes de la majorité sur ce fil.Mais quand je vois et revois les continuelles interventions absurdes d'un membre, je me pose la question. Pourquoi perdons nous notre temps à lui répondre? 

Pourquoi discuter avec un membre qui de toute évidence n'à qu'une seule opinion, se prouver à lui même qu'il a toujours raison, depuis les années 70. Et que tout le Québec a tort.

[ToxiK]

Il y a 2 heures, gomtl a dit :

C"est très difficilile d'avoir une discussion sur le thème de ce fil. En émettant une opinion sur le thème principal, voilà qu'on a un intervenant qui nous bouscule dans tous les sens, en nous chocant par l'absurdité de ses propos. Et c'est la que le bal commence. Nos explications, plus souvent qu'autrement supportées par des statistiques probantes sont rejetées et les comparaisons qui nous ramènent des décennies en arrière entrent dans le débat.

Cette attitude n'est rien d'autres qu'un désir de voir déraper une discussion qui commence à être révélatrice. J'aime lire les commentaires sérieux et bien supportes de la majorité sur ce fil.Mais quand je vois et revois les continuelles interventions absurdes d'un membre, je me pose la question. Pourquoi perdons nous notre temps à lui répondre? 

Pourquoi discuter avec un membre qui de toute évidence n'à qu'une seule opinion, se prouver à lui même qu'il a toujours raison, depuis les années 70. Et que tout le Québec a tort.

En assumant que je ne sois pas le membre dont tu parles, je dirais que l'opinion (non partagée sur ce forum) de mark_ac rprésente aussi l'opinion "officielle" du ROC.  Ce n'est pas parce que le ROC fait la promotion d'une pensée unique concernant le Québec que nous devons faire pareil ici.  La seule façon de déboulonner les mythes concernant l'économie de Montréal est d'en discuter et de contrer les arguments avec de meilleurs contre-arguments.  Et la meilleure façon d'éviter de se déprimer sur ce qui ne va pas à Montréal (car, admettons-le, tout n'est pas parfait) et de montrer ce qui va et de démontrer qu'on s'améliore constamment.