ville mont-royal Royalmount

[ERJ-Boy]

je ne suis pas sur de comprendre le point du pôle hotelier, est-ce que ce secteur a autant besoin de chambres d'hôtels? 

[IluvMTL]

3 minutes ago, ERJ-Boy said:

je ne suis pas sur de comprendre le point du pôle hotelier, est-ce que ce secteur a autant besoin de chambres d'hôtels? 

Probablement à cause de la proximité de l'aéroport et les compagnies installes autour.

[sim]

il y a 4 minutes, ERJ-Boy a dit :

je ne suis pas sur de comprendre le point du pôle hotelier, est-ce que ce secteur a autant besoin de chambres d'hôtels? 

Il semble que les promoteurs travaillent étroitement avec Aéroports de Montréal pour la création de ce pôle hôtellier. Probablement dû à sa proximité de l'aéroport, des autoroutes ainsi que son emplacement au milieu de l'île. Aussi, le Technoparc de St-Laurent est à proximité et en pleine expansion. C'est aussi probablement pour maximiser la rentabilité de leur projet en misant sur le tourisme, contrairement aux autres mégacentres commerciaux qui n'ont peu ou pas de composante hôtellière. 

[nephersir7]

Il y a 21 heures, ToxiK a dit :

Toute activité économique entraîne des effets négatifs, très souvent de la congestion.  Si les Expos reviennent, ils vont causer de la congestion (même si le stade est construit à côté du REM).  Une nouvelle usine causera aussi de la congestion.  Augmenter l'attrait commercial du centre-ville y attirera plus de clients (et ils ne viendront pas tous en métro).  Une nouvelle clinique pédiatrique va attirer des patients avec des enfants, beaucoup viendront donc en voiture.  La meilleure solution pour éviter la congestion est de rester chez soi et d'écouter la télé.

Non. Ce n'est pas toute activité économique qui entraîne le même genre de congestion. Un stade de baseball sur le site Royalmount serait bien moins pire que le projet proposé. 

Un stade de baseball est vide les 3/4 de l'année, et quand il opère, le monde arrive tout en même temps, et part tout en même temps. Ça provoque une couple d'heures de gros bouchons les soirs de matchs, mais ça s'arrête là. 

Similairement, avec des bureaux ou du résidentiel, l'impact des trajets maison-boulot se fait juste sentir aux heures de pointe, alors c'est pas grave.

Avec le Royalmount, n'importe quelle fin de semaine typique, tu vas avoir des familles de partout dans la région de Montréal qui vont se précipiter pour arriver à l'ouverture des glissades d'eau, ensuite le va et vient de tous les magasins, ensuite les restaurants, le cinéma, salle de spectacles, les bars, etc. Un roulement continuel qui s'étale de 8h à 22h+... et puis toutes les livraisons autour de ça.

Du strict point de vue de l'induction de circulation, il ne peut pas y avoir de pire projet au pied carré qu'un "destination mall".

Et quand on mesure l'importance de la Métropolitaine et de Décarie pour l'économie Montréalaise, pour le camionage, les exportations, etc... C'est vraiment pas le meilleur endroit pour mettre ce genre de projet. 

[MtlMan]

Il y a 5 heures, amos404 a dit :

Jean-claude Marsan Lit peut être Mtlurb  

 

Il est peut-être même un participant!

[gelu88]

I've read the entirety of this thread.

The most important issue no one has talked about is parking. How many spots? are we sure they are all free?

The single most important number for the sustainability of this whole project is the number of parking spots per unit area. 

It's pretty clear that this project will have very few surface level spots. They will almost all be underground. In that case, they can add a few hundered, maybe a couple thousand without much issue, similar to how the center of dix30 does it. This would also control the maximum level of congestion, since people won't come by car if they can't park without stress.

But if they want more, if we're talking 3,4 or 5000 free spaces, they will have to spend a huge amount of money. If parking is free, that cost will be downloaded to leasee's (which usually incentivizes luxury users over cheaper ones) This also leads to the congestion nightmare we are all afraid of.

 But it's not a guarantee. If they have paid parking, the dynamics change quite a lot. This immediately makes using transit more viable for many riders who could do it either way.  The most common way malls do it without pushing people away is to offer free parking if users spend X amount of money while they are there.

We don't have any details, but my point is that *any* amount of parking management policies can have a huge effect on how this project affects traffic patterns overall.

 

Another element that I find curious, why isn't Carbonleo lobbying for an extension of the Orange line to Bois-franc? They are only talking about a shuttle, which we all know is not going to be used very much by local users. A shuttle from the airport is a bit better, but it makes no sense in the context of a new 6 Billion dollar transit system that is scheduled to come online at almost the exactly same time as the Royalmount project. Having a direct transfer from the REM to the orange line, then being able to get off at De la Savane and walk to the mall seems to me to be a hugely attractive option for thousands of users in the west, but also from the core and south.

If they were serious about transit, that would be a major priority.

 

To comment on the arguments that have gone in circles over the past months, I would say that I think this area would absolutely benefit from re-development. Putting in a $1billion is absolutely something everyone should want. 

The question is, what type of project works best for that area? Having a large commercial element be a part of the project is totally reasonable, but if we want to minimise long travel times, it's best to make the local density as high as possible.  Having thousands of new residents that could get there without using the highway helps, Blue bonnets and the entire corridor around devonshire could be developed and link Royalmount to a population distinct from the highway access. The Cavendish overpass, with a T junction towards Boul Royalmount, is essential to maximising its local value. 

 

but a transit focus is also essential. The key for getting people to use transit is how the new development is designed. If the layout of the project on the highway side is properly focused on pedestrians, they will use it. If it's more focused on people coming from parking lots,  more of those people will come. Consider Solar Uniquartier, which in many ways is an identical project, but one which seems to have much less of a car focus.(and includes 40% residential, which is no accident)

This project was much worse last year when there was zero plans for residential. If the plan now is a smaller retail part with phases to be added later, that is more reasonable. If in the long run we could totally eliminate the industrial activity in that area and have royalmount be the nexus for an entire high density mixed use community, anchored by a active metro station, The future of the area could be pretty bright.

 

But the rhetoric of the developers is not inspiring me that the right choices will be made.

Modifié 26 février 2018 par gelu88

[_mtler_]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/royalmount-mall-montreal-quebec-tmr-1.4551303

Royalmount is about to transform Montreal. Who should get a say in the project?

Carbonleo plans to break ground on a $1.7B mega-mall this year, even though Plante administration has concerns

By Benjamin Shingler, CBC News Posted: Feb 26, 2018 4:00 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 26, 2018 5:30 AM ET

It will span an area larger than 40 football fields and feature restaurants, entertainment venues, office space, a hotel and plenty of stores.

At that size, the Royalmount mega-mall — a development planned at the junction of Highways 15 and 40 — will, for better or worse, have a seismic impact on the surrounding area and the retail landscape of Montreal as a whole.

The project's backers say it will offer a unique shopping experience on the island. Critics, though, predict it will create traffic woes and eat into the profits of downtown shops.

It was the Town of Mount of Royal alone that had the power to approve the $1.7-billion project, and its town council has already given the go-ahead. The developer announced last week it will break ground later this year.

Yet given the potentially wide-ranging consequences for Montrealers, some wonder if the City of Montreal, and the surrounding municipalities, should also have a say in whether the mega-mall goes ahead?

Raphaël Fischler, an urban planning professor at McGill University, puts the question this way:

"The main issue that this project raises is this: is it OK for a municipality to make a land development decision on its own when that decision will have major impacts on surrounding municipalities?"

Traffic, impact on small businesses among key concerns

Projet Montreal was against the project before it took power last fall, and remains skeptical about how it will affect the city.

"There were serious concerns about the impact on traffic and the impact on the commercial vitality of the city," Éric Alan Caldwell, a Projet councillor responsible for planning and transport on Montreal's executive committee, told reporters earlier this week.

"We still have those same concerns." 

Projet Montréal's Luc Ferrandez, borough mayor of Plateau-Mont-Royal, was blunt when the mega-mall was first announced, saying it would multiply traffic and pollution problems as well as hurt the local economy.

"Montreal is at a turning point. We have to choose between our own identity … or accepting an American way of life, and maybe a Dubai way of life," he said in 2015.

Whether or not the city comes around, the developer — Carbonleo — maintains it can go ahead with the project because it falls squarely within TMR land.

According to Caldwell, though, the agglomeration council, which is comprised of the City of Montreal and the other municipalities on the island, does have authority when it comes to impact on traffic and retail outlets nearby.

"We met with the promoter to share our concerns and we are in dialogue," Caldwell said.

Developer ready to go ahead

Andrew Lutfy, president and CEO of Carbonleo, said he wants Montreal on board, even if he doesn't believe it's necessary.

"At this point, they are really just digesting the project and I guess they are going to come back to us," he told reporters earlier this week.

Carbonleo isn't new to this kind of project. It is also the developer behind Quartier DIX30, a sprawling development in Brossard on Montreal's South Shore.

That complex, he said, succeeded in luring shoppers from the island. An estimated 15 per cent of DIX30's revenue comes from Montreal residents, Lutfy said during speech at the Canadian Club of Montreal.

At the same time, he tried to downplay concerns that Royalmount would hurt small businesses or the downtown core.

Carbonleo believes in the future of downtown, he said, and is putting $500 million into a commercial project on Ste-Catherine Street near Mountain.

He also said there will be measures introduced to reduce the impact on traffic at the already busy Décarie Interchange, including multiple entrances and exits away from the highways.

A planned footbridge linking the centre to de la Savane Metro station is also in the plans. Lutfy estimates as much as one third of clients will come by public transit.

Regional approval?

Fischler said the "law is on TMR's side for now, and one can understand why a municipality doesn't want to give up some of its autonomy in land-use decision-making." 

But, he pointed out, the Quebec government has in the past taken away municipal autonomy in order to protect agricultural land.

In Europe, he said, many European countries have instituted legislation that subjects large suburban developments to higher-level control in an attempt to limit the damage that suburban retail can do to downtown retail.

"Perhaps the law in Quebec should be changed to reflect the fact that some local planning decisions have regional impacts and should be managed at the regional level?"

The office of Martin Coiteux, the minister responsible for the Montreal region, did not immediately return a request for comment Sunday.

[YUL]

14 hours ago, gelu88 said:

If parking is free, that cost will be downloaded to leasee's (which usually incentivizes luxury users over cheaper ones) This also leads to the congestion nightmare we are all afraid of.

Totally agree with this observation. Parking fees should be charged (and not subsidized by leasee's). That should alleviate somewhat the increase in traffic.

The fair costs to improve the surrounding roads/exits/freeway (to absorb the increased traffic) should also be charged to the developer. This project requires costly infrastructure (roads) improvements. It doesn't make any sense to nail the taxpayers for this.   (Anyways, the developer was able to obtain the property rights cheaply due to that lack of access).

Modifié 26 février 2018 par YUL

[budgebandit]

So you would oblige a private company willing to invest $2B in a project of this magnitude to make improvements to the existing road network as well? Seems like a horrible deal for them.... 

The municipal and provincial governments have every interest in this project being a success. Just think of the extra tax dollars coming in..... It's the reason why Projet Bicycle Montreal has been so quiet about the whole thing! 

The least the gov't can do is improve road access that should have been improved 25 years ago.... It will allow the $$$ to flow more fluidly into their coffers 

 

[gelu88]

Another major element people have not talked about. What's the deal with the Cavendish overpass?

 

If they build the overpass, along with a T intersection connecting boul Royalmount, it could greatly increase the connection of that area and no longer make it a dead end. This makes it better for the Royalmount project, but also for blue bonnet and any other neighborhood revitalization of the rest of the area.

If I try to think utopian for a second, it's totally possible that in 30 years that entire area pulls a griffintown and turns into an entire highly populated urban area, with Royalmount acting as it's core.

 

That's kinda what Longueuil wants to do around their metro, it's what all the REM stations hope for, and such connection is totally possible here if they plan it right

 

We have no idea right now how this project is actually going to be laid out. If it's not crap, we could have a pretty decent long term plan, and the project could catalyse the rest of the industrial area around it to "residentialize".

 

They are talking about cycling access and walkability, so it's possible the urban design might be decent. 

 

But we have no idea, and we are at the whims of anonymous designers over how it will end up, because TMR gave them total control.