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Discussion: Proposition modeste et réaliste pour le futur des transports à MTL

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Montréal
    Messages
    125

    Par défaut Proposition modeste et réaliste pour le futur des transports à MTL

    Voici la carte de ce que j'appelle le réseau central de Montréal (le genre de carte qu'on donnera aux touristes). Elle comporte plusieurs éléments clés d'une refonte des transports, inspiré en partie par cette carte du blogueur Catbus: http://www.cat-bus.com/wp-content/up...nimalist-4.png.

    Tous ces projets sont très faisaibles avec un investissement minimal des gouvernements. Les voici en phases avec horizon:

    PHASE 1: Création du SRB Pie-IX (identifié comme P9 sur la carte) et extension du métro vers Anjou. HORIZON 2013-2014


    PHASE 2: Création et mise en service progressive d'un réseau étendu de SRB. Nous aurons déjà l'expérience de Pie-IX.
    4 lignes au centre-ville : A, B, C et D (donc facile à s'en souvenir), qui sont chacun divisé en deux (B1 sera à l'ouest et B2 à l'est d'un
    croisement spécifique, par exemple).
    2 lignes en banlieue proche sur l'île: A1 vers l'ouest de l'île, E dans l'axe Sauvé/Côte-Vertu, et F dans l'axe Henri-Bourassa/Gouin

    Notons que tous ces lignes sont est-ouest, et que les lettres montent en ordre alphabétique à partir du fleuve. Quitte à verser des millions dans un tramway énorme, faisons plutôt un système extrèmement intuitif de SRB, qu'on utilisera avec la même facilité que le métro. Les arrêts majeurs auront un abribus fermé et chauffé l'hiver, avec des ponts piétons pour éviter de traverser dans la circulation. HORIZON 2015-2025


    PHASE 3: Création d'une seule ligne de tramway au centre-ville et dans les axes Côte-des-Neiges/ave. du Parc, destiné à ceux qui ne sont pas à distance de marche du métro, et aux touristes qui n'osent pas prendre le bus. HORIZON 2017

    PHASE 4: Construction progressive de 3 extensions du métro:
    Ligne orange vers Bois Franc et Laval (comme déjà prévu)
    Ligne jaune vers McGill (pour alléger la ligne verte qui est à capacité)
    Ligne orange express dans l'axe Jean Talon-Berri-Bonaventure: Il s'agit non pas d'une ligne à part mais d'un dédoublement du tunnel avec 1 ou possiblement 2 voies séparées, qui permettront aux banlieusards d'arriver plus rapidement au centre en sautant les arrêts entre Jean-Talon et Berri, entre Berri et Bonaventure, et à ceux du centre d'éviter des heures de pointes massives dans le métro. HORIZON 2020-2030

    PHASE 5: Construction d'une station Duluth sur la ligne orange. Mont-Royal et Sherbrooke sont trop éloignés l'un de l'autre, et les rues du Plateau sont trop étroites pour un usage efficace de SRB/tramway. HORIZON 2025


    Tous ces ajouts sont basés sur le principe que tout le monde au centre devrait être à distance de marche 5-10 min. max de leur arrêt "rapide" (c'est-à-dire SRB, TRAM, METRO-- bas petit bus de quartier). Avec ce système hybride on aura un système avec autant de proximité que Paris, mais sans le coût de la construction de tramway et moins de dérangement au niveau de la construction. Notons que j'ai marqué le SLR Brossard ainsi que des station AMT à McGill et UdeM mais comme c'est pas sûr et ça ne relève pas vraiment de l'STM j'ai pas marqué de "Phase".

    Dites-moi ce que vous pensez!

    Pièce jointe 3458

  2. #21
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Montreal, QC
    Messages
    117

    Par défaut

    They switch on Notre-Dame and Saint-Patrick because of the Turcot works... Notre-Dame and Saint-Patrick now have bus lanes... It's not that much longer, considering how much traffic there will be on the 20 near Turcot in the next few years.

  3. #22
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Montréal
    Messages
    125

    Par défaut

    Citation Envoyé par ERJ-Boy Voir le message
    211, 411 and 405 are express buses to the downtown area. It would still be a good idea to make them go all the way to Lionel-Groulx. As for a metro station in Lasalle (which I would name Honoré-Mercier), it would be a huge addition to all those lines in Lachine that go to Angrignon or Lionel-Groulx. Think of LaSalle as like Honoré-Beaugrand. A lot of buses come from Pointe-aux-Trembles to the end of the green line, but a few express buses go directly downtown. The same thing should happen there. Bus lines from the west island to that LaSalle train station, and then the express buses that go downtown.

    As for the blue line, extending it to Montreal-Ouest is a great idea (I live right near that train station ), but I wonder if that many people would take it instead of the 105 to the orange line, which would be faster to go downtown.
    Eventual metro extensions to Lasalle and Montreal-Ouest are almost inevitable, but that will happen in a looong time. As it stands, the population density is greater at the east end of the island (partly because the airport takes up a lot of space in the West Island). This is why the Anjour extension is the most important. That plus the Pie-IX bus rapid transit. Think of all the people from Rosemont, St-Michel, St-Léonard, Anjou, Montréal-Nord, not to mention parts those farther east, as well as those who will take the BRT from Laval to the Pie-IX blue line station (a new hub for transit in the east end).

    I think in the meantime the train de l'ouest project will do a great job for the west island. They have to make that service like an extension to the metro.

  4. #23
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Montreal, QC
    Messages
    117

    Par défaut

    I agree with you except for the fact that I'm not a big fan of the whole BRT thing... To me, a real good transit system involves grade-separated means of transportation... BRT is on reserved lanes but that's pretty much it... That is why I propose a metro line under Pie-IX.

    Secondly, I agree with the fact that Train de l'Ouest is the best option for the West Island... But we are talking about Lachine, LaSalle and NDG... These areas are pretty much where Train de l'Ouest stops being effective... They are twice the density of the West Island, and Train de l'Ouest stations in that area are not well located (Lachine station is in the middle of nowhere...) That is why the metro can be extended to LaSalle/Lachine and NDG. I'll post a map.

  5. #24
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Montréal
    Messages
    125

    Par défaut

    Citation Envoyé par ERJ-Boy Voir le message
    I agree with you except for the fact that I'm not a big fan of the whole BRT thing... To me, a real good transit system involves grade-separated means of transportation... BRT is on reserved lanes but that's pretty much it... That is why I propose a metro line under Pie-IX.
    If we had a government that was firmly committed to mass transit, I would say go metro all the way, but for now we don't. Have you seen Ottawa BRT? It's almost as fast as a train and the reserved lanes work really well. With a more coherent bus system we can save money and resources for more long-term investments I think. But again, in principle I agree with you.

    I've often wondered why we don't consider building elevated rail on Pie-IX. There's certainly the space for it and it would cost less than tunneling. Of course people would be NIMBY all over that idea, but really I've always liked the parts of New York served by el trains. They have a similar effect to surface transport in that business at the street level benefit from pedestrian traffic around the stations (people walk along the line to find the next station, stopping in businesses along the way). Riding on elevated rail also gives great views of the city, and with the low skyline of the east end, you would get great views of the stadium, the mountain, and downtown.

    Elevated stations and their stairwells could be closed in the winter and properly air-conditioned or heated (which underground stations will never be in the near future in Montreal). We could also easily build elevator access for handicapped people. With modern equipment, the lines wouldn't necessarily make too much noise in the streets either (possibly less than a frequent bus service).

    Just another idea. But let's see that map...
    Dernière modification par Robert Keaghan Jennings ; 06/04/2012 à 09h15.

  6. #25
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Montreal, QC
    Messages
    117

    Par défaut

    we wouldn't be able to have something like the Ottawa Transitway (yes I have seen it) simply because we do not have the space for it... Especially not on Pie-IX and Henri-Bourassa... The elevated railway is also an very unlikely thing in Montreal, because rubber tires cannot run outside. We would then require to seal the elevated metro in a "box" which would be a little bit like in Sapporo, Japan... Ugly!

  7. #26
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Montréal
    Messages
    125

    Par défaut

    Citation Envoyé par ERJ-Boy Voir le message
    we wouldn't be able to have something like the Ottawa Transitway (yes I have seen it) simply because we do not have the space for it... Especially not on Pie-IX and Henri-Bourassa... The elevated railway is also an very unlikely thing in Montreal, because rubber tires cannot run outside. We would then require to seal the elevated metro in a "box" which would be a little bit like in Sapporo, Japan... Ugly!
    We could also run elevated rail with conventional trains and no rubber tires. There's no reason why we can't use several different technologies at once, and I'm sure the extra cost of buying these different trains is much less than tunnelling 20 miles.

  8. #27
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Montreal, QC
    Messages
    117

    Par défaut

    it would mean a totally new yard and repair shop, a new fleet, dividing the train operators between two different types of rolling stocks, plus the cost of the line and the stations... So everything you would save on building overground would be spent back on all the difference between the trains... Plus it doesn't look very good... When you take the examples of other subways in the world that have rubber and steel, Paris was steel with lines converted to rubber because, at the time, it was better (now it's pretty much the same)... Santiago is the same thing...

  9. #28
    Date d'inscription
    juin 2011
    Localisation
    Montréal
    Messages
    125

    Par défaut

    [QUOTE=ERJ-Boy;140473]it would mean a totally new yard and repair shop, a new fleet, dividing the train operators between two different types of rolling stocks, plus the cost of the line and the stations... So everything you would save on building overground would be spent back on all the difference between the trains... Plus it doesn't look very good... When you take the examples of other subways in the world that have rubber and steel, Paris was steel with lines converted to rubber because, at the time, it was better (now it's pretty much the same)... Santiago is the same thing...[/QUOTE

    Sure, but if they build one for the airport then I'm presuming they could eventually share equipment.

  10. #29
    Date d'inscription
    août 2008
    Localisation
    Montreal, QC
    Messages
    117

    Par défaut

    how?!?! The airport is on the other side of the city! unless you want to build another line all the way across the city?

  11. #30
    Date d'inscription
    août 2009
    Localisation
    montreal
    Messages
    1 700

    Par défaut

    i don't mind elevated rails myself but along a boulevard it just doesn't seem to work ... a low cost alternative to building a whole new line might be to aquire / expand the existing rail lines that will be used by the train the l'est and have a metro service run along it. there was a similar proposition to that effect on this very forum a while back; these tracks could be connected to the tracks that go into mtl-west lasalle to create an "S" shaped line servicing the north east, downtown and NDG / lasalle. a similar thing could be done using the tracks that are currently used for the roxborough bound commuter trains. elevated extentions could be eventually be built in the suburbs...

    nothing wrong with using two types of different technologies, although ive always wondered why rubber tyred trains couldnt be made to also run on steel tracks. they do in the shops, so why not in operation ? it probably would look a little silly to have the rubber wheels hanging over the tracks and those also would need to be fitted with a third rail for power but otherwise i see no reason why it couldn't be made to work ...
    Dernière modification par pedepy ; 10/04/2012 à 16h29.
    disclaimer: excusez la lecture de mes mots, j'ai plusieurs langues secondes.

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